The ever-popular trio known as dcTalk has done it again. Never ones to rest on past successes, these former kings of Christian rap have reinvented their sound with each new album, from hip-hop to grunge to hard rock, never losing the distinctive essence and energy that has kept them riding high on the Christian music charts for almost a decade.
It comes as no surprise that Supernatural, dcTalk's newest musical incarnation, is both fresh yet subtly familiar. Storming headlong into new musical territory, these three East Coast boys blend driving alternative pop melodies with revealingly introspective lyrics and a certain sophistication that may catch listeners off guard.
These artistic transformations have been one of the keys to dc Talk's remarkable success, but it's not something they purposely set out to do. "I think it's just growth, artistic growth," says unofficial group leader Toby McKeehan. "I really think it has to be that, because we don't start out saying, OK, now let's do a post-modern rock album. We just make our record."
Yet there is more than just artistic growth at work in the commanding sound and message. A new songwriting style, new family ties, and the potential for an entirely new audience all collide spectacularly to deliver the rich fullness and deep maturity of Supernatural.
Working Together
Though dcTalk-- Kevin Max, Michael Tait and Toby -- has been a record-making team for years, most of their songs had been written solo by each individual member. Not so with Supernatural. "The thing that sets Supernatural apart from any other record, for me, is that this is the first time all three of us were incorporated in the writing of each song," says the group's poet laureate, Kevin. "I think all our ideas about life have taken shape as a whole or a collective in this."
Of course, fusing the creative energy and spiritual intensity of three very independent men was no easy task. "We learned to work together at a deeper level with this record," Toby says. "This time we sat in a room together and wrote out the words, and that was hard. It was a process that I think was good for us; we gained respect for each other. That's the most vulnerable place you can possibly be, to throw out a lyric in front of other people ... that's tough."
But the hard work paid off in the end. "I'm proud of the words we worked on together," Toby says. "They're real, they're relational, but also bathed in the Word, because our lives are."
Pick up the latest issue of
Release Magazine at your local store or check out their
website for more artist interviews.
Used with permission, Release Magazine
Parable.com Exclusive Interview
with
Toby McKeehan and Kevin Max
When you guys started the band what was your vision for DC Talk?
Toby: "When we came together it was clear that we all three were believers and we all three loved music. It was the difference in the musical opinions that was rough for people to get over, I think that’s what made really made DC Talk. Kevin came from one background musically, Michael came from another and I came from another one and so when you put all of that together we kind of came out this sort of, I’ll give it a compliment and say "eclectic" pop.
But all three of us, I think we said that we all three like different sorts of music, but we love music and we see music as a platform to point people to our Father, the Lord Christ."
You guys obviously have attained huge success. Has your vision for the band changed since the beginning?
Kevin: "I wouldn’t say the vision has changed, because really the vision is something that propels the whole thing, but it definitely branches off from the different directions, I mean with any vision it is not going to go exactly the way you think it is going to go. And for us it’s taken different shapes and sometimes different phases. But I think the original vision of being a group that is message-oriented that takes what we believe with our faith, with our social ideas, with what we believe in those ways and incorporating what we do musically and bringing it to the masses. I mean we’ve always wanted to bring our music to as big of a crowd as possible, and the group has always been about making the best music possible as well.
Making the best standard of music that we possibly can make, meaning that we definitely are about perfecting who we are as musicians as well as perfecting who we are as people. And I think outside of music, I think it’s more important who we are off the stage than who we are on stage. That’s the toughest thing is to know what to do with that one. Because that vision is a lot tougher."
Toby: "The branching out has been cool because we’ve learned that a song about a relationship with our wives, in our friendships, a song about interracial relations can reflect Christ. I think at first, for me, I don’t know how Kevin might have felt, but at first we all said we had to write every song that is directly vertical and talks me to Christ, or me to God, and all of a sudden I’ve learned over the last several years that you can write a song to God, not just between you and me, it’s about our relationships, Mike, Kevin and I, you know we can fight and then we confess and forgive, and that to me is reflective of Christ, it is reflective of what he did for us.
Is Supernatural the culmination of that?
Kevin: "Definitely. The thing is that Supernatural, apart from any record to me, is that it is the first time that all three of us were incorporated into the writing of each song, musically and lyrically, and I think that all of our ideas about life have taken more of a shape as a whole, a collective."
Now you have the rare ability to change your style of music with each album and yet remain distinctly DC Talk. How do you change, but stay the same at the same time?
Toby: "I think it’s just growth, artistic growth, spiritual growth. I really think it has to be that, because we don’t set out…now let’s do a post-modern rock. We just kind of make our record and I think it is the reason it’s DC Talk is because, I think a DC Talk lyric is a DC Talk lyric, and I think vocally and how we blend our voices and our talents together is what makes us a little bit different from the next group."
Can you guys tell me the process of creating Supernatural? Were there any new influences or any new inspirations on this one?
Kevin: "I think for me, one of my biggest influences in life right now is my wife. I just got married; it’s going to be a year in eight days. I think she’s taught me a lot of values. She grew up in a non-Christian home and came to know the Lord by studying Francis Schaefer stuff. She got her Christianity from a theological Bible, and a logical Bible, and now a traditional Bible. And I think that a lot of people out there grow up within the church and you really don’t find out about their true spirituality until very far down the way, and I think it’s been a big message to me to really find out who I am and not listen to who I was taught and to look it out and find it myself. And so for me that’s what changed me."
Toby: "I think on another level, and this affected all of us, I think we learn to work together at a deeper level this record because whereas before we would each, I would take home a song and work on a lyrical, or Kevin would take home something and work on a lyric, or Mike. This time we sat in a room together in room and wrote the words, and that was hard. I mean it was a process, and it was a process that I look back and say it was good for us, we gained respect for each other, we worked together at a deeper level. That is the most vulnerable you could possibly be, is to throw out a lyric in front of people that has to follow-up records that have sold a million.
That’s tough. It has to be artistic, it has to be true from a theological standpoint, it has to sound personal. There are a lot of criteria and filters that that lyric has to go through. I think it was a good process, I’m really proud of the words we worked on together. I’ve never felt so proud of them. They are real, they’re relational, but they’re also sort of bathed in the Word. Because our lives are. Our personal lives are, and were they not you might hear that tweak occasionally. Because they are you hear us totally submerging in that, in truth."
You guys are kind of Christian "stars," is it hard to stay humble as a Christian when you are put in this role? And how do stay focused?
Kevin: "I think it’s very hard to be a humble Christian whether you are a star or not, because I think humility is something that we as people continually fight against because we are sinful. And I also think that, yeah, that when you put yourself up on a pedestal and you have a lot of people hanging on every word that you say, it creates a strange scenario within your mind and some performers take that too seriously and they start to believe what they are supposed to be in other peoples minds.
Where I think that as a Christian I feel that I continually have to beat myself up to become more like Christ, and it’s just a struggle. You know it is. It’s not as difficult a struggle as some might think, but it’s a struggle that is always there to a degree for me, I mean for other people they might be able to handle it, or completely write it off. But not me."
Toby: "I think it is definitely a struggle for everyone. For me, personally, I’m uncomfortable with the world "celebrity," I’m uncomfortable with the word "star." It’s just not comfortable for my personality and I don’t like it. Other people do a little bit better than me probably, I just kind of live in denial and say that’s not who I am, I mean that’s how I have to face it personally.
Both you guys are married, how do you nurture that relationship when you are on the road and you are so busy and all that kind of stuff?
Toby: One way is by not leaving your ring in your hotel room. [with a laugh.]
Kevin: I would be kicked out of the house for a week for that. [with another laugh.]
Toby: "It’s in the hotel room with her, she’s there with it."
Kevin: "Ask my little brother about that. He was with me all day, and I check in with my wife two or three times a day on the phone when she is not here. Because it’s kind of like sending a message that "I care about you and I wish that I could spend more time with you." So we communicate as much as we possibly can. Obviously our phone bill is a little higher than most people’s, but I think that if I didn’t communicate with her during the day… I think that is the tragedy in being a performer and not communicating on the road. When you don’t comminute with your other half, it’s kind of like you are setting yourself up for a lot of strangeness. There is a lot of temptation on the road to get attention from other women, it is definitely there, but the way I conquer that is I just look further down the road and I think of decisions that are going to be longevity based decisions. I can say no to this attention right now because I know I have a beautiful woman waiting at home for me that cares about me internally not externally.
Toby, your wife is pregnant right now?
Toby: Yes
Congratulations! How exciting.
Toby: "Very exciting."
Kevin: "They are going to name the first one Kevin Max."
Toby: "We are due on the release date of our record, which is a trip."
Are you nervous?
Toby: "Yeah, yeah I am. I was actually talking about the advantages and disadvantages this morning. We’re very much used to running because the life that we came up in since college, we have just been running. I mean as a band we go from city to city, hotel to hotel, not lying around watching TV. Amanda [his wife] fell right into that, we travel all the time. When I get home from the studio at 7, I say ‘okay can we eat really quick and go to a movie?’ it’s like that. It’s not like, ‘okay I’m home now, we’re in our nest, you know.’ So it’s like that is going to be a big transition for me when I come home. Either that or I’ll have to get a full-time babysitter or something.
But I’m looking forward to it, and I was thinking about when you were answering that question, is you remember in the Religion Hall at Liberty, there was this guy named VR Laken, and he was like a traveling evangelist and what do they call those guys who travel on horseback? Anyway, they used to travel on horseback to preach the gospel, and I was thinking about that guy’s wife. He didn’t have cell phones, he didn’t have phones. Kevin picks up his phone three or four times a day, calls his wife she is on the cell phone somewhere but she’s not sitting at home, she is busy too. So it’s like, we are so blessed with technology, I mean it might kill us one day but....
So giving up that is a sacrifice to come on the road."
Where do you guys find the energy and inspiration to keep on making that sacrifice?
Toby: "For me I wouldn’t leave home personally if I couldn’t stand up and point kids towards God each night. I mean that’s the truth. I mean art is important, art is nice, but for me personally I can say that that’s art and not just enough to leave my house as much as I do. But the Gospel is."
Kevin: "Honestly, for me, that is a good question because you think ‘Why am I in it? Why am I doing this?" For me it’s that, but it’s also… I feel like I am a task oriented person and I feel that if I was not doing something I would feel like less of a man, I know that when I sit at home for more than two or three days at a time and have nothing to do, I start creating things to do. My wife is like that too, so it’s not just about men, I mean she’s very busy, she likes to take on projects all the time. I think for me it is a task.
Coming up and doing shows are a lot of fun. There are a lot of emotional highs that go on by being in concerts, and there are spiritual highs too, like pointing people to God. But for me it’s a job, coming up and doing a dc Talk show is a job. And I love having it as a job."
What do you do to have fun?
Kevin: "I’ll explain what you like [Toby] and then he’ll explain what I like. Toby’s a sports guy, he likes to play basketball, he golfs.
Toby: I played Pebble Beach today.
Kevin: "I also think he likes to travel and do other things. What else do you like to do? You like to collect strange floppy hats."
Toby: "Kevin definitely likes to travel, he loves his tea time. He definitely is a fashion guru, and I think if dc Talk is his job, poetry’s his love, I think that’s true. I’ve seen him write poetry, I’ve seen him around the corner writing poetry, he’s like having fun. When we try to write a song it’s like we are pulling each others teeth out."
Kevin: "I like it. I mean I personally I like to look at myself as a well-rounded person, I enjoy playing tennis, I like to go out and body surf with my brother, it’s a lot of fun. The thing is that you know what we do is kind of like standard for everybody that I know that’s making music to be very athletic, but at the same time travel a lot and you just have a lot of things you like to do. Because just sitting around watching TV… your adrenaline is up all the time, to do interviews like this, to be on stage, you have a lot of loves, you love life, a lot.
What lessons is God teaching you right now? Personally, or as a band.
Kevin: "I think mine is definitely humility. That is probably my big thing…My manager is like slowly nodding, not to sleep, but nodding in like yes, affirmation, it’s true.
I mean my wife beats me up about it sometimes, my friends beat me up about it. It’s the biggest."
Toby: "Mine is the same thing really, but in a different package. Mine is learning to put other people first. And also being at peace, even in the midst of craziness. I think God’s saying, you know what even though this is going on and that’s going on with dc Talk or this company thing, or this investment thing, or you didn’t get to play at Augusta National, just kidding God is saying you can be at peace with me, in the midst of frustration, in the midst of all the craziness. And I think that I am striving for personal peace more this year than I ever have before.
You guys are with Virgin Records now, and your music is going to go more to the mainstream. Is that going to change the way you do things?
Kevin: "Virgin to me, is just this…it is a carrier for what we do to the public. We believed in the staff at Virgin, we were courted by many different companies after our contract ran out with ForeFront and Virgin just seemed like the right place to go for us, the staff felt right.
There was nobody in the infrastructure talking about changing what we do, in fact it was quite the opposite, they were wanting to be a part of what we did because they know that what we do is successful. But I think that they realize that with us we carry a strong message, to water that message down is to lose what we stand for and really it’s to take the foundation out from underneath us. So I’m thinking that any record company would be stupid to mess with what we have internally."
Toby: "I agree. Another great aspect was that we could remain with ForeFront also. Virgin agreed that we could stay with their Christian label, I mean that worked out perfect.
As I said earlier it’s just a bigger canon to shoot, they can now shoot more product in more places than we’ve ever been before. With Virgin’s help, to me I look at it from an evangelistic stand point of, wow with Virgin’s help we can get through the gospel to lots of people and our art to lots of people, and what we do, the things that we’ve learned and the things that we’ve grown through, and our struggles, we can throw them out there to everybody and hopefully people will ultimately be pointed toward the light.
Kevin: One thing in staying with ForeFront, we told them that they have to change the name to Talkfront.
One song that stands out in my head is "My Friend." Is there a story behind that?
Toby: "Yep, Kevin’s quitting the group, no I’m just kidding!"
Kevin: "It’s a fantasy song, I would say that at one or two times all of us have had that "dream" that what would be like if I left the band and became a huge star without dc Talk. Just because it’s in us to think about that because we’re selfish people. I think that we kind of dreamed that idea up, what would it be like if we had a member that left and became a rock star, bigger and better than we could have ever been and kind of lost his faith in the process.
I know that I’ve had people in my life that I can draw that analogy to and in a way it’s kind of like we see people in this position and so it’s kind of something that is close to home. But it’s also a fantasy, like a role, it’s a storyteller song."
Is this the one you guys wrote in Europe? Can you guys tell me little bit about that?
Toby: We were in a castle in France, we got invited to a songwriters retreat, and you sit around a huge table and eat breakfast and then you go off to your own little room within the castle and…
So we went off to this little place and the whole thing is you start at 8 in the morning and you have until 2 in the morning to write and record a song. You have to do a song a day. So it was quite interesting.
Kevin: "That’s what we were supposed to do. We didn’t really obey the rules because we’re not Johnny on the spot".
Toby: "We used to write a song in three months. But it was interesting because Carol King was there, some very interesting people. The lead singer of Crash Test Dummies. We ended up writing a song with Dominick Miller who’s best known as Sting’s guitarist. And then also a guy named Mark Hudson. He just produced Ringo Starr but besides that he’s really known as being the Hudson Brother’s variety show.
So we ended up with them and we pushed the song out in a day. We just wanted to take a trip somewhere, and Kevin nailed it, it was fantasy. It’s interesting because we wanted to deal with what we would feel in the group, I mean, are we jealous, are we insecure, are we proud of him, are we happy for him? In some ways we wanted to encompass all of those feelings, because all of them would really come out."
Kevin: "So it will be interesting to see who gets to play that role in the video. We will probably be fighting over it so much we’ll have to get someone else to play that. Johnny Depp, or a screen actor would be cool for that. I have an idea, Toby has an idea. Mike wants like Brad Pitt, a "Legends of the Fall" kind of look.